[Kadam] [SPAM?] Fw: trans

Mon Oct 12 13:09:48 BST 2020

 O Hermann löfik!
Baicedob, das sinif primota: love- < pö vöds pemäniotöl no binon fümik, äsi ut lima balid: ‘trans-’ in vöds natapükas anik. Tefü atos säk veütik valemik süikon: daloy-li sümädön stukotis vödas natapükik ad jafön Volapükavödis? Sams somik dabinons ön bundan vemik (bevüresod, bienazil, caratänden, …), ed atos no binon-la nedälovik, ab dasevob, das mod at binon dotabik, e binosös vipabik ad miedükön numi defomotas somik ün fütür. Brefo: vöd ko primot: love- no binonöv dialik, e sio vedükonöv Volapüki netikavikumi.Sotüls kuratikum bo binons-la mögiks (ko dils: votagena-, votageni-, okseved, okmeug, e ret), ab obinons-la tu luniks e ba semikna igo noföls. Ba ek obas omobom tuvedoti votik kuratikum, äsi gütöfiki ä brefiki.
Ladöfiko,Daniil ü Shido

    понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 14:34:09 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps <hphilipps at onlinehome.de> написал(-а):  

 O ‚Shido’ löfik!

Danob oli demü pläns olik.
Jinos lü ob, das id vöds: loveboidön, lovegrifön, loveikön, loveliänam 
< ninädons bosi topik, do te püliko.
In vöd: lovelifädön (vödiko de vöd Deutänapükik: ‚überleben’) < el 
„love” labon sinifi timik.
Säkäd ye binon, das no suemob sinifi ela „love” in *lovegenik. Atos 
binon dinäd lanavik: man in koap vomik, vom in koap manik, man u vom, 
kels no senälons äsä man u vom, u bos votik. Alo, igo ven man u vom 
somiks sufikons ad genicein, neai poso binons vom u man legiks. Te 
binons sümädots. Loveikam voik no jenon, te feakosmet nelölöfik, kel 
spelabiko ovedükon lifi otanas balugikumi e plitikumi.

Mögos, das binob tu sevärik tefü siäm vödas, e no vipob ad tasteifön 
progedi Volapüka.
Sötobs ye betikön, das mils jäfüdavödedas dabinons in nolavs, lekans, 
febods e ret, tefü kels no labobs Volapükavödis. If zesüdos, binos 
balugikum ad gebön as foginavöds vödis ya dabinikis.

Lestümiko,
Hermann
----------------------

Am 12.10.2020 um 09:58 schrieb Dan Morosof:
> Vemo danob demü gespik staböfik.
> 
> Tefü “di”: cedob, das kanon papladön noe fo nems, abi fo bidanems. 
> Samo el Arie de Jong seimna edatikom notodoti: harmonöm di ‘jazz’ (ab 
> latikumo stamäd: cäsd <  epubon, e vöd tefik pro musigöm: 
> cäsdaharmonöm). El Albert Sleumer ämäniotom eli plan di ‘soma’. Zuo pö 
> jenets mödik lartig in genitif e präpod: di < binons siämaröletiks, as 
> sam: pük di ‘Schleyer’ = pük ela Schleyer. Jinos lü ob, das vödil: di 
> < ädefon in Volapük timü püb ela “Gramat Volapüka”, bi buk et äninädon 
> samis sököl:
> tüm : ‘Eiffel’ (nu penoyöv: tüm di ‘Eiffel’),
> stitod : ‘Pasteur’.
> Poso präpod: “di” < pilasumon ini vödastok Volapüka, primo ad gebön fo 
> nems, ab latikumo mastans ettimik Volapüka äjinoms sludön, das vödil 
> at kanon pagebön i pö foginavöds votik.
> 
> Baicedob tefü geb ela ‘gender’ as foginavöd, bi liedo defomamavöd ko 
> poyümot jiniko pötöfikün: -ät < ya no binon labülabik.
> 
> Tefü “love” (*lovegen, *lovegenan) dotob, das labon-la te siämi topik. 
> Semikna präpods Volapükik labons sinifis difik (samo el “sus”, kel as 
> lim balid koboyümavöda suvo baiädon ko foyümot bevünetik: ‘super-’). 
> El loveikam kanon malön ceini ön siäm valemik. Zuo el love as lim 
> balid vödas noe kanon malön mufi su sürfat seimik (tävön love mel, 
> spearön love taled), abi feapladami u votikami topik, as sams: 
> loveboidön (tökön, votükön nafi), lovegrifön. Ba klien ad votükön geni 
> ud ad stadön plödü gen biologik okik i kanon-la pamalön dub el “love”. 
> Ma ced obik, pö jenets sököl sinif ela love no binon voiko topik:
> “De cils vel te tel älovelifädons palis oksik…”
> “Do iprimom as studan Godava, äloveikom ye suno lü stud planava…”
> loveliänam = ‘Enjambement’
> Kludo niludob, das gebäd metaforik, efe no topik, ela “love” i 
> binon-la mögik, pato ninü koboyümavöd.
> 
> Ko lestüm,
> Daniil ü Shido.
> 
> 
> понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 09:34:41 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps 
> <hphilipps at onlinehome.de> написал(-а):
> 
> 
> O kekadämans stimik!
> 
> Dotob tefü geb präpoda: love < ad malön eli ‚trans’ ön siäm nevoik.
> Ma sev obik präpod at te pagebon ön siäm topik: love mel/flumed/jot, e r.
> Zuo vöds: ‚transgender’ e ‚trans’ no binons balsinifiks (leigoäs el
> ‚meme’).
> Kludo fikulos ad datikön vödi te Volapükiki.
> Ibä vöds at niludo pogebons nesuvo u neföro in vödems Volapükik, mobob
> das geboyös vödis Linglänapükik (kels pagebons id püks votik): ‚trans’
> e ‚transgender’ < as foginavöds in vödems Volapükik.
> Ad fomön ladyekis ba kanoy gebön eli „di”, do voiko vödül at rigo
> äjonidon ad fomön ladyekis te de nems, as sam: flad di ‚Leiden’.
> 
> Leigo – e demü kods ot – cedob, das bo kanoy gebön vödi: ‚gender’ as
> foginavöd in vödems Volapükik, if desiroy ad kurato malön eli ‚social
> gender role’.
> 
> Lestümiko,
> Hermann.
> ---------------
> 
> Am 11.10.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Dan Morosof:
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Пересылаемое сообщение -----
>  > *От:* Donald Gasper <don_gasper at outlook.com 
> <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>>
>  > *Кому:* Dan Morosof <shido2308 at yahoo.com <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com>>
>  > *Отправлено:* воскресенье, 11 октября 2020 г., 21:50:24 GMT+5
>  > *Тема:* Re: trans
>  >
>  > Baicedob. *Lovegenan jinon binön pötöfik.
>  >
>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > *From:* Dan Morosof <shido2308 at yahoo.com <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com>>
>  > *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 12:30 AM
>  > *To:* Kadäm Volapüka <kadam at evertype.com 
> <mailto:kadam at evertype.com>>; hphilipps at onlinehome.de 
> <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>
>  > <hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>>; Brennus 
> Volapükan
>  > <brennusvp at legranus.me.uk <mailto:brennusvp at legranus.me.uk>>; Arden 
> R. Smith <erilaz at earthlink.net <mailto:erilaz at earthlink.net>>;
>  > Daniel Zhang <dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com>>; Igor Wasilewski
>  > <espigor at gmail.com <mailto:espigor at gmail.com>>; Michael Everson 
> <everson at evertype.com <mailto:everson at evertype.com>>; Donald
>  > Gasper <don_gasper at outlook.com <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>>
>  > *Subject:* trans
>  > O kekadämans stimik!
>  >
>  > Semikna kompenob pö bespiks ai fenüköls Volapükagrupa ela ‘Discord’
>  > labü nem “Volapükan”. Enu säkäd vödas eli ‘LGBT’ tefölas päbespikon.
>  > Ekö! dil primik spikota:
>  >
>  > El “MonitanBlövik”: i don't even know if we have a word for
>  > transgender in volapük
>  > trans- means "over" so it could be lovegenik
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: we tried once
>  > El “MonitanBlövik”: but sometimes volapük words have to be a lot more
>  > specific
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votgenan
>  > El “MonitanBlövik”: vot is not a preposition so it would be votagenan
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: looks like a discrepancy with votgeniäl but it's
>  > still clear for me
>  > yes that
>  > El “MonitanBlövik”: -iäl means an inclination, and in more cases than
>  > not it's pejorative
>  > so i don't know if it's suitable
>  > i approve of its usage in a non-pejorative situation
>  > but still.. is it a tendency?
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: idk I thought we planned it
>  > votageniäl for homosexuality
>  > that's why I say votagenan
>  > El “MonitanBlövik”: i think it's itgeniäl
>  > votageniäl is heterosexuality
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: otgeniäl
>  > sorry yeah I mistook
>  > El ‘Shido’: As I know, dictionaries of Midgley and Cherillod have the
>  > word "otgeniälan" for a homosexual.
>  > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votageniäl - heterosexuality
>  > votageniälan - straight
>  > otgeniäl - homosexuality
>  > otgeniälan - gay
>  >
>  > otgenan - trans?
>  >
>  > Täno pos vestig brefüpik äkanob nunön, das diatek nulik Volapükik
>  > gevon tefü ‘homosexual’ vödi: “otgenageniälan” (logolsös penedi balid
>  > elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VI, 9!)
>  > El “geniäl” sinifon dranäli genik, äsä vödemadiled sököl jonülon: “Ab
>  > if ek cedom, das dunom nepötöfiko kol jigam okik, bi geniäl omik vedon
>  > tu nämöfik” (pened balid elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VII, 36). Klu el
>  > “otgenageniäl” kanon paplänön as geniäl kol gen ot, e fom: *otgeniälan
>  > < se vödabuks anik binon neverätik. Id ämäniotob vödi:
>  > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban", keli bü yels anik el Hermann istukom
>  > ad leigätod ela ‘drag queen’ pö Volapükagrup ela ‘Facebook’. Ad jonön
>  > lüodis mögik betika, äkoboädob vödis: *gügenokseved (stabü okseved as
>  > ‘self-identification’) e *genavotükamiäl(an).
>  > Täno el “Monitan blövik” äpenom:
>  >
>  > “1. I don't think the meaning of "person with an inclination for
>  > gender change" is neuter enough. I am not an expert on the matter, but
>  > many trans people never change their biological gender, and others I
>  > think prefer to not think about it as a change, but as something they
>  > always identified with
>  > 2. Let's take in consideration in the future practicality and length
>  > when proposing a new word. The word above would just not be practical
>  > if we are to use Volapük in a colloquial context. Translating the
>  > notion as closely as possible does not always mean it's the best 
> solution
>  > many auxlangs work in analogy with the international word, if they
>  > don't adapt the word directly. the prefix "trans-" is translated with
>  > "love-" in volapük. so a term like lovegenan would be easy to remember
>  > and good enough to describe it.
>  > we're not making alien language or a polysynthetic word here where the
>  > whole definition has to fit into a single word
>  > for "self identity" i would use
>  > "okdientif"
>  > it's closer to the international root and shorter
>  > while we're on it, we should change "dientifäd" which means "identity
>  > card" to "dientifot" since it's a real, tangible object, not an
>  > abstraction
>  > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban" i think is first of all misgendering
>  > the singer ("she"), second of all it refers to transVESTITE people not
>  > transSEXUAL, that is people who dress as the other gender, which might
>  > or might not be trans
>  > and even in this case we can use the friendlier "lovegenikloteman" or
>  > "votagenikloteman" ”
>  >
>  > Cedob, das vöds: *lovegen ad ‘transsexuality’ e *lovegenan jinons
>  > binön pötöfiks. Ud okanoy-la datikön vödis votik seimik labü binet:
>  > “love”.
>  > Ba i binosös vipabik ad labön vödi ad ‘gender’, kel no ai baibinon
>  > gen. Liedo no mögos ad gebön vödi: genät, bi ya dabinon subsat
>  > “genätamahijip”. Ba odaloy-li gebön poyümotis votik, as sam: *genöf?
>  > U-li igo el *genöfät?
>  > Ba i vöds votik siämagrupa at oklülädons-la zesüdön. Kisi cedols-li?
>  >
>  > Ko lestüm,
>  > ‘Daniil’ ü ‘Shido’.
> 
>  >
>  >
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