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<div><div><div>O Hermann löfik!</div><div><br></div><div>Baicedob, das sinif primota: love- < pö vöds pemäniotöl no binon fümik, äsi ut lima balid: ‘trans-’ in vöds natapükas anik. Tefü atos säk veütik valemik süikon: daloy-li sümädön stukotis vödas natapükik ad jafön Volapükavödis? Sams somik dabinons ön bundan vemik (bevüresod, bienazil, caratänden, …), ed atos no binon-la nedälovik, ab dasevob, das mod at binon dotabik, e binosös vipabik ad miedükön numi defomotas somik ün fütür. Brefo: vöd ko primot: love- no binonöv dialik, e sio vedükonöv Volapüki netikavikumi.</div><div>Sotüls kuratikum bo binons-la mögiks (ko dils: votagena-, votageni-, okseved, okmeug, e ret), ab obinons-la tu luniks e ba semikna igo noföls. Ba ek obas omobom tuvedoti votik kuratikum, äsi gütöfiki ä brefiki.</div><div><br></div><div>Ladöfiko,</div><div>Daniil ü Shido</div></div><br></div><div><br></div>
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понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 14:34:09 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps <hphilipps@onlinehome.de> написал(-а):
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<div><div dir="ltr">O ‚Shido’ löfik!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Danob oli demü pläns olik.<br clear="none">Jinos lü ob, das id vöds: loveboidön, lovegrifön, loveikön, loveliänam <br clear="none">< ninädons bosi topik, do te püliko.<br clear="none">In vöd: lovelifädön (vödiko de vöd Deutänapükik: ‚überleben’) < el <br clear="none">„love” labon sinifi timik.<br clear="none">Säkäd ye binon, das no suemob sinifi ela „love” in *lovegenik. Atos <br clear="none">binon dinäd lanavik: man in koap vomik, vom in koap manik, man u vom, <br clear="none">kels no senälons äsä man u vom, u bos votik. Alo, igo ven man u vom <br clear="none">somiks sufikons ad genicein, neai poso binons vom u man legiks. Te <br clear="none">binons sümädots. Loveikam voik no jenon, te feakosmet nelölöfik, kel <br clear="none">spelabiko ovedükon lifi otanas balugikumi e plitikumi.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Mögos, das binob tu sevärik tefü siäm vödas, e no vipob ad tasteifön <br clear="none">progedi Volapüka.<br clear="none">Sötobs ye betikön, das mils jäfüdavödedas dabinons in nolavs, lekans, <br clear="none">febods e ret, tefü kels no labobs Volapükavödis. If zesüdos, binos <br clear="none">balugikum ad gebön as foginavöds vödis ya dabinikis.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Lestümiko,<br clear="none">Hermann<br clear="none">----------------------<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Am 12.10.2020 um 09:58 schrieb Dan Morosof:<br clear="none">> Vemo danob demü gespik staböfik.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Tefü “di”: cedob, das kanon papladön noe fo nems, abi fo bidanems. <br clear="none">> Samo el Arie de Jong seimna edatikom notodoti: harmonöm di ‘jazz’ (ab <br clear="none">> latikumo stamäd: cäsd < epubon, e vöd tefik pro musigöm: <br clear="none">> cäsdaharmonöm). El Albert Sleumer ämäniotom eli plan di ‘soma’. Zuo pö <br clear="none">> jenets mödik lartig in genitif e präpod: di < binons siämaröletiks, as <br clear="none">> sam: pük di ‘Schleyer’ = pük ela Schleyer. Jinos lü ob, das vödil: di <br clear="none">> < ädefon in Volapük timü püb ela “Gramat Volapüka”, bi buk et äninädon <br clear="none">> samis sököl:<br clear="none">> tüm : ‘Eiffel’ (nu penoyöv: tüm di ‘Eiffel’),<br clear="none">> stitod : ‘Pasteur’.<br clear="none">> Poso präpod: “di” < pilasumon ini vödastok Volapüka, primo ad gebön fo <br clear="none">> nems, ab latikumo mastans ettimik Volapüka äjinoms sludön, das vödil <br clear="none">> at kanon pagebön i pö foginavöds votik.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Baicedob tefü geb ela ‘gender’ as foginavöd, bi liedo defomamavöd ko <br clear="none">> poyümot jiniko pötöfikün: -ät < ya no binon labülabik.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Tefü “love” (*lovegen, *lovegenan) dotob, das labon-la te siämi topik. <br clear="none">> Semikna präpods Volapükik labons sinifis difik (samo el “sus”, kel as <br clear="none">> lim balid koboyümavöda suvo baiädon ko foyümot bevünetik: ‘super-’). <br clear="none">> El loveikam kanon malön ceini ön siäm valemik. Zuo el love as lim <br clear="none">> balid vödas noe kanon malön mufi su sürfat seimik (tävön love mel, <br clear="none">> spearön love taled), abi feapladami u votikami topik, as sams: <br clear="none">> loveboidön (tökön, votükön nafi), lovegrifön. Ba klien ad votükön geni <br clear="none">> ud ad stadön plödü gen biologik okik i kanon-la pamalön dub el “love”. <br clear="none">> Ma ced obik, pö jenets sököl sinif ela love no binon voiko topik:<br clear="none">> “De cils vel te tel älovelifädons palis oksik…”<br clear="none">> “Do iprimom as studan Godava, äloveikom ye suno lü stud planava…”<br clear="none">> loveliänam = ‘Enjambement’<br clear="none">> Kludo niludob, das gebäd metaforik, efe no topik, ela “love” i <br clear="none">> binon-la mögik, pato ninü koboyümavöd.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Ko lestüm,<br clear="none">> Daniil ü Shido.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 09:34:41 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a>> написал(-а):<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> O kekadämans stimik!<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Dotob tefü geb präpoda: love < ad malön eli ‚trans’ ön siäm nevoik.<br clear="none">> Ma sev obik präpod at te pagebon ön siäm topik: love mel/flumed/jot, e r.<br clear="none">> Zuo vöds: ‚transgender’ e ‚trans’ no binons balsinifiks (leigoäs el<br clear="none">> ‚meme’).<br clear="none">> Kludo fikulos ad datikön vödi te Volapükiki.<br clear="none">> Ibä vöds at niludo pogebons nesuvo u neföro in vödems Volapükik, mobob<br clear="none">> das geboyös vödis Linglänapükik (kels pagebons id püks votik): ‚trans’<br clear="none">> e ‚transgender’ < as foginavöds in vödems Volapükik.<br clear="none">> Ad fomön ladyekis ba kanoy gebön eli „di”, do voiko vödül at rigo<br clear="none">> äjonidon ad fomön ladyekis te de nems, as sam: flad di ‚Leiden’.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Leigo – e demü kods ot – cedob, das bo kanoy gebön vödi: ‚gender’ as<br clear="none">> foginavöd in vödems Volapükik, if desiroy ad kurato malön eli ‚social<br clear="none">> gender role’.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Lestümiko,<br clear="none">> Hermann.<br clear="none">> ---------------<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Am 11.10.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Dan Morosof:<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > ----- Пересылаемое сообщение -----<br clear="none">> > *От:* Donald Gasper <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a> <br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>>><br clear="none">> > *Кому:* Dan Morosof <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>>><br clear="none">> > *Отправлено:* воскресенье, 11 октября 2020 г., 21:50:24 GMT+5<br clear="none">> > *Тема:* Re: trans<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Baicedob. *Lovegenan jinon binön pötöfik.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">> > *From:* Dan Morosof <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>>><br clear="none">> > *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 12:30 AM<br clear="none">> > *To:* Kadäm Volapüka <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam@evertype.com</a> <br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam@evertype.com</a>>>; <a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a> <br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a>><br clear="none">> > <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a>>>; Brennus <br clear="none">> Volapükan<br clear="none">> > <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:brennusvp@legranus.me.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brennusvp@legranus.me.uk</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:brennusvp@legranus.me.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brennusvp@legranus.me.uk</a>>>; Arden <br clear="none">> R. Smith <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:erilaz@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">erilaz@earthlink.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:erilaz@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">erilaz@earthlink.net</a>>>;<br clear="none">> > Daniel Zhang <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:dannyzhang99@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dannyzhang99@yahoo.com</a> <br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:dannyzhang99@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dannyzhang99@yahoo.com</a>>>; Igor Wasilewski<br clear="none">> > <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:espigor@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">espigor@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:espigor@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">espigor@gmail.com</a>>>; Michael Everson <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:everson@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">everson@evertype.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:everson@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">everson@evertype.com</a>>>; Donald<br clear="none">> > Gasper <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>>><br clear="none">> > *Subject:* trans<br clear="none">> > O kekadämans stimik!<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Semikna kompenob pö bespiks ai fenüköls Volapükagrupa ela ‘Discord’<br clear="none">> > labü nem “Volapükan”. Enu säkäd vödas eli ‘LGBT’ tefölas päbespikon.<br clear="none">> > Ekö! dil primik spikota:<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > El “MonitanBlövik”: i don't even know if we have a word for<br clear="none">> > transgender in volapük<br clear="none">> > trans- means "over" so it could be lovegenik<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: we tried once<br clear="none">> > El “MonitanBlövik”: but sometimes volapük words have to be a lot more<br clear="none">> > specific<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votgenan<br clear="none">> > El “MonitanBlövik”: vot is not a preposition so it would be votagenan<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: looks like a discrepancy with votgeniäl but it's<br clear="none">> > still clear for me<br clear="none">> > yes that<br clear="none">> > El “MonitanBlövik”: -iäl means an inclination, and in more cases than<br clear="none">> > not it's pejorative<br clear="none">> > so i don't know if it's suitable<br clear="none">> > i approve of its usage in a non-pejorative situation<br clear="none">> > but still.. is it a tendency?<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: idk I thought we planned it<br clear="none">> > votageniäl for homosexuality<br clear="none">> > that's why I say votagenan<br clear="none">> > El “MonitanBlövik”: i think it's itgeniäl<br clear="none">> > votageniäl is heterosexuality<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: otgeniäl<br clear="none">> > sorry yeah I mistook<br clear="none">> > El ‘Shido’: As I know, dictionaries of Midgley and Cherillod have the<br clear="none">> > word "otgeniälan" for a homosexual.<br clear="none">> > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votageniäl - heterosexuality<br clear="none">> > votageniälan - straight<br clear="none">> > otgeniäl - homosexuality<br clear="none">> > otgeniälan - gay<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > otgenan - trans?<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Täno pos vestig brefüpik äkanob nunön, das diatek nulik Volapükik<br clear="none">> > gevon tefü ‘homosexual’ vödi: “otgenageniälan” (logolsös penedi balid<br clear="none">> > elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VI, 9!)<br clear="none">> > El “geniäl” sinifon dranäli genik, äsä vödemadiled sököl jonülon: “Ab<br clear="none">> > if ek cedom, das dunom nepötöfiko kol jigam okik, bi geniäl omik vedon<br clear="none">> > tu nämöfik” (pened balid elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VII, 36). Klu el<br clear="none">> > “otgenageniäl” kanon paplänön as geniäl kol gen ot, e fom: *otgeniälan<br clear="none">> > < se vödabuks anik binon neverätik. Id ämäniotob vödi:<br clear="none">> > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban", keli bü yels anik el Hermann istukom<br clear="none">> > ad leigätod ela ‘drag queen’ pö Volapükagrup ela ‘Facebook’. Ad jonön<br clear="none">> > lüodis mögik betika, äkoboädob vödis: *gügenokseved (stabü okseved as<br clear="none">> > ‘self-identification’) e *genavotükamiäl(an).<br clear="none">> > Täno el “Monitan blövik” äpenom:<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > “1. I don't think the meaning of "person with an inclination for<br clear="none">> > gender change" is neuter enough. I am not an expert on the matter, but<br clear="none">> > many trans people never change their biological gender, and others I<br clear="none">> > think prefer to not think about it as a change, but as something they<br clear="none">> > always identified with<br clear="none">> > 2. Let's take in consideration in the future practicality and length<br clear="none">> > when proposing a new word. The word above would just not be practical<br clear="none">> > if we are to use Volapük in a colloquial context. Translating the<br clear="none">> > notion as closely as possible does not always mean it's the best <br clear="none">> solution<br clear="none">> > many auxlangs work in analogy with the international word, if they<br clear="none">> > don't adapt the word directly. the prefix "trans-" is translated with<br clear="none">> > "love-" in volapük. so a term like lovegenan would be easy to remember<br clear="none">> > and good enough to describe it.<br clear="none">> > we're not making alien language or a polysynthetic word here where the<br clear="none">> > whole definition has to fit into a single word<br clear="none">> > for "self identity" i would use<br clear="none">> > "okdientif"<br clear="none">> > it's closer to the international root and shorter<br clear="none">> > while we're on it, we should change "dientifäd" which means "identity<br clear="none">> > card" to "dientifot" since it's a real, tangible object, not an<br clear="none">> > abstraction<br clear="none">> > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban" i think is first of all misgendering<br clear="none">> > the singer ("she"), second of all it refers to transVESTITE people not<br clear="none">> > transSEXUAL, that is people who dress as the other gender, which might<br clear="none">> > or might not be trans<br clear="none">> > and even in this case we can use the friendlier "lovegenikloteman" or<br clear="none">> > "votagenikloteman" ”<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Cedob, das vöds: *lovegen ad ‘transsexuality’ e *lovegenan jinons<br clear="none">> > binön pötöfiks. Ud okanoy-la datikön vödis votik seimik labü binet:<br clear="none">> > “love”.<br clear="none">> > Ba i binosös vipabik ad labön vödi ad ‘gender’, kel no ai baibinon<br clear="none">> > gen. Liedo no mögos ad gebön vödi: genät, bi ya dabinon subsat<br clear="none">> > “genätamahijip”. Ba odaloy-li gebön poyümotis votik, as sam: *genöf?<br clear="none">> > U-li igo el *genöfät?<br clear="none">> > Ba i vöds votik siämagrupa at oklülädons-la zesüdön. Kisi cedols-li?<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Ko lestüm,<br clear="none">> > ‘Daniil’ ü ‘Shido’.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> > Kadam mailing list<br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a>><br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Kadam mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a>><div class="ydpc5a1b91eyqt2068521089" id="ydpc5a1b91eyqtfd67369"><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Kadam mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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