[Egyptian] Two group joiners

[Nigel Strudwick]

As I am called out in para 1, here’s my 10¢/10p.Nice to be able to add a bit of Egyptology into this...

I would say that as a general point these tall groups seem to be an affectation of certain types of monuments IN HIEROGLYPHS at certain periods (excluding Graeco-Roman stuff, which is beyond me). The following comments are based on a brief bit of thought and should no way be regarded as definitive.

Firstly, you need to remember that the best quality monumental texts are almost always vertical, so it’s not relevant to those. This would go for temples and tomb walls. So I would indeed exclude the OK (although there is bound to be the odd exception!)

Longer series of horizontal texts seem to come in with the increasing use of stelae, which is a development of the First Intermediate Period. You only need to look at some of the private stelae from the 11th dyn and before to see what I mean. This continues into the MK and beyond.

As a general rule, the more elaborate the graphic carving/painting of the glyphs, the less frequent these tall groups are. So as a general rule, you don’t see them on  earlier fancy royal stelae with elaborate signs, but once you get into the NK with the more lengthy inscriptions, even royal ones, cut into sandstone with no pretence of using beautiful painted signs, yes, they get stacked more. My guess it is as a result of texts getting longer but don’t quote me on that.

Any help?

Nigel


On 26 Jul 2016, at 11:57, Stéphane polis <s.polis at ulg.ac.be> wrote:

> Dear Bob,
> 
> Thanks for this document! Some remarks. 
> 
> P. 1 - tall groups are not ‘best know from Late Egyptian’: probably rarer in Old Kingdom inscriptions (but this should be checked and I don’t know of studies about this aspect, Nigel?), they are everywhere in hieroglyphic inscriptions (and perhaps more and more systematically present) from the First Intermediate Period onward (down to the Late Period). Look for instance at the biographical texts on FIP and Middle Kingdom stelae; you’ll find several examples on every single document. The same remark applies to your note after the title ‘horizontal text’ obviously.
> 
> P. 1  - Note. 'The topic etc.’: I understand that you do not want to conflate the issues, but in a broader perspective why not acknowledging the fact that the same principles apply, namely make groups that are somehow scaled down for fitting in horizontal, vertical or diagonal arrangements. Your solution is probably convenient for vertical and horizontal grouping in most cases (even if it probably implies later additions of additional lower/higher level operators for more complex embedding), but could you explain how you intend to deal with e.g. groups like <PastedGraphic-6.pdf> (in s*xm-ib*), frequent as well in the same context? 
> 
> Offering a solution to this issue would be a big step forward in my view!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Stéphane
> 
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>> Le 23 juil. 2016 à 00:19, Bob Richmond <bobqq at live.co.uk> a écrit :
>> 
>> <TwoGroupJoinersForEgyptianDraft2.pdf>
> 
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