[Kadam] [SPAM?] Re: [SPAM?] Fw: trans
Hermann Philipps
hphilipps at onlinehome.de
Tue Oct 13 09:44:36 BST 2020
O kadämans stimik!
Posä evotükob cedi obik dö ‚transgender’ in Volapük, mobob:
lovegen [kadäm, 2020] n. transgenderity.
lovegenan [kadäm, 2020] n. transgender, trans (somebody not
identifying with his/her biological sex).
lovegenik [kadäm, 2020] adj. transgender (not identifying with one's
biological sex; also: adhering to a non-binary notion of gender).
Hermann
------------------
Am 12.10.2020 um 14:09 schrieb Dan Morosof:
> O Hermann löfik!
>
> Baicedob, das sinif primota: love- < pö vöds pemäniotöl no binon
> fümik, äsi ut lima balid: ‘trans-’ in vöds natapükas anik. Tefü atos
> säk veütik valemik süikon: daloy-li sümädön stukotis vödas natapükik
> ad jafön Volapükavödis? Sams somik dabinons ön bundan vemik
> (bevüresod, bienazil, caratänden, …), ed atos no binon-la nedälovik,
> ab dasevob, das mod at binon dotabik, e binosös vipabik ad miedükön
> numi defomotas somik ün fütür. Brefo: vöd ko primot: love- no binonöv
> dialik, e sio vedükonöv Volapüki netikavikumi.
> Sotüls kuratikum bo binons-la mögiks (ko dils: votagena-, votageni-,
> okseved, okmeug, e ret), ab obinons-la tu luniks e ba semikna igo
> noföls. Ba ek obas omobom tuvedoti votik kuratikum, äsi gütöfiki ä
> brefiki.
>
> Ladöfiko,
> Daniil ü Shido
>
>
> понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 14:34:09 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps
> <hphilipps at onlinehome.de> написал(-а):
>
>
> O ‚Shido’ löfik!
>
> Danob oli demü pläns olik.
> Jinos lü ob, das id vöds: loveboidön, lovegrifön, loveikön, loveliänam
> < ninädons bosi topik, do te püliko.
> In vöd: lovelifädön (vödiko de vöd Deutänapükik: ‚überleben’) < el
> „love” labon sinifi timik.
> Säkäd ye binon, das no suemob sinifi ela „love” in *lovegenik. Atos
> binon dinäd lanavik: man in koap vomik, vom in koap manik, man u vom,
> kels no senälons äsä man u vom, u bos votik. Alo, igo ven man u vom
> somiks sufikons ad genicein, neai poso binons vom u man legiks. Te
> binons sümädots. Loveikam voik no jenon, te feakosmet nelölöfik, kel
> spelabiko ovedükon lifi otanas balugikumi e plitikumi.
>
> Mögos, das binob tu sevärik tefü siäm vödas, e no vipob ad tasteifön
> progedi Volapüka.
> Sötobs ye betikön, das mils jäfüdavödedas dabinons in nolavs, lekans,
> febods e ret, tefü kels no labobs Volapükavödis. If zesüdos, binos
> balugikum ad gebön as foginavöds vödis ya dabinikis.
>
> Lestümiko,
> Hermann
> ----------------------
>
> Am 12.10.2020 um 09:58 schrieb Dan Morosof:
> > Vemo danob demü gespik staböfik.
> >
> > Tefü “di”: cedob, das kanon papladön noe fo nems, abi fo bidanems.
> > Samo el Arie de Jong seimna edatikom notodoti: harmonöm di ‘jazz’ (ab
> > latikumo stamäd: cäsd < epubon, e vöd tefik pro musigöm:
> > cäsdaharmonöm). El Albert Sleumer ämäniotom eli plan di ‘soma’. Zuo pö
> > jenets mödik lartig in genitif e präpod: di < binons siämaröletiks, as
> > sam: pük di ‘Schleyer’ = pük ela Schleyer. Jinos lü ob, das vödil: di
> > < ädefon in Volapük timü püb ela “Gramat Volapüka”, bi buk et äninädon
> > samis sököl:
> > tüm : ‘Eiffel’ (nu penoyöv: tüm di ‘Eiffel’),
> > stitod : ‘Pasteur’.
> > Poso präpod: “di” < pilasumon ini vödastok Volapüka, primo ad gebön fo
> > nems, ab latikumo mastans ettimik Volapüka äjinoms sludön, das vödil
> > at kanon pagebön i pö foginavöds votik.
> >
> > Baicedob tefü geb ela ‘gender’ as foginavöd, bi liedo defomamavöd ko
> > poyümot jiniko pötöfikün: -ät < ya no binon labülabik.
> >
> > Tefü “love” (*lovegen, *lovegenan) dotob, das labon-la te siämi topik.
> > Semikna präpods Volapükik labons sinifis difik (samo el “sus”, kel as
> > lim balid koboyümavöda suvo baiädon ko foyümot bevünetik: ‘super-’).
> > El loveikam kanon malön ceini ön siäm valemik. Zuo el love as lim
> > balid vödas noe kanon malön mufi su sürfat seimik (tävön love mel,
> > spearön love taled), abi feapladami u votikami topik, as sams:
> > loveboidön (tökön, votükön nafi), lovegrifön. Ba klien ad votükön geni
> > ud ad stadön plödü gen biologik okik i kanon-la pamalön dub el “love”.
> > Ma ced obik, pö jenets sököl sinif ela love no binon voiko topik:
> > “De cils vel te tel älovelifädons palis oksik…”
> > “Do iprimom as studan Godava, äloveikom ye suno lü stud planava…”
> > loveliänam = ‘Enjambement’
> > Kludo niludob, das gebäd metaforik, efe no topik, ela “love” i
> > binon-la mögik, pato ninü koboyümavöd.
> >
> > Ko lestüm,
> > Daniil ü Shido.
> >
> >
> > понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 09:34:41 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps
> > <hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>> написал(-а):
> >
> >
> > O kekadämans stimik!
> >
> > Dotob tefü geb präpoda: love < ad malön eli ‚trans’ ön siäm nevoik.
> > Ma sev obik präpod at te pagebon ön siäm topik: love
> mel/flumed/jot, e r.
> > Zuo vöds: ‚transgender’ e ‚trans’ no binons balsinifiks (leigoäs el
> > ‚meme’).
> > Kludo fikulos ad datikön vödi te Volapükiki.
> > Ibä vöds at niludo pogebons nesuvo u neföro in vödems Volapükik, mobob
> > das geboyös vödis Linglänapükik (kels pagebons id püks votik): ‚trans’
> > e ‚transgender’ < as foginavöds in vödems Volapükik.
> > Ad fomön ladyekis ba kanoy gebön eli „di”, do voiko vödül at rigo
> > äjonidon ad fomön ladyekis te de nems, as sam: flad di ‚Leiden’.
> >
> > Leigo – e demü kods ot – cedob, das bo kanoy gebön vödi: ‚gender’ as
> > foginavöd in vödems Volapükik, if desiroy ad kurato malön eli ‚social
> > gender role’.
> >
> > Lestümiko,
> > Hermann.
> > ---------------
> >
> > Am 11.10.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Dan Morosof:
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Пересылаемое сообщение -----
> > > *От:* Donald Gasper <don_gasper at outlook.com
> <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>
> > <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>>>
> > > *Кому:* Dan Morosof <shido2308 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com>>>
> > > *Отправлено:* воскресенье, 11 октября 2020 г., 21:50:24 GMT+5
> > > *Тема:* Re: trans
> > >
> > > Baicedob. *Lovegenan jinon binön pötöfik.
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Dan Morosof <shido2308 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:shido2308 at yahoo.com>>>
> > > *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 12:30 AM
> > > *To:* Kadäm Volapüka <kadam at evertype.com
> <mailto:kadam at evertype.com>
> > <mailto:kadam at evertype.com <mailto:kadam at evertype.com>>>;
> hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>
> > <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>>
> > > <hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>
> <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de <mailto:hphilipps at onlinehome.de>>>;
> Brennus
> > Volapükan
> > > <brennusvp at legranus.me.uk <mailto:brennusvp at legranus.me.uk>
> <mailto:brennusvp at legranus.me.uk <mailto:brennusvp at legranus.me.uk>>>;
> Arden
> > R. Smith <erilaz at earthlink.net <mailto:erilaz at earthlink.net>
> <mailto:erilaz at earthlink.net <mailto:erilaz at earthlink.net>>>;
> > > Daniel Zhang <dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com <mailto:dannyzhang99 at yahoo.com>>>;
> Igor Wasilewski
> > > <espigor at gmail.com <mailto:espigor at gmail.com>
> <mailto:espigor at gmail.com <mailto:espigor at gmail.com>>>; Michael Everson
> > <everson at evertype.com <mailto:everson at evertype.com>
> <mailto:everson at evertype.com <mailto:everson at evertype.com>>>; Donald
> > > Gasper <don_gasper at outlook.com <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>
> <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com <mailto:don_gasper at outlook.com>>>
> > > *Subject:* trans
> > > O kekadämans stimik!
> > >
> > > Semikna kompenob pö bespiks ai fenüköls Volapükagrupa ela ‘Discord’
> > > labü nem “Volapükan”. Enu säkäd vödas eli ‘LGBT’ tefölas päbespikon.
> > > Ekö! dil primik spikota:
> > >
> > > El “MonitanBlövik”: i don't even know if we have a word for
> > > transgender in volapük
> > > trans- means "over" so it could be lovegenik
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: we tried once
> > > El “MonitanBlövik”: but sometimes volapük words have to be a lot
> more
> > > specific
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votgenan
> > > El “MonitanBlövik”: vot is not a preposition so it would be
> votagenan
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: looks like a discrepancy with votgeniäl but
> it's
> > > still clear for me
> > > yes that
> > > El “MonitanBlövik”: -iäl means an inclination, and in more cases
> than
> > > not it's pejorative
> > > so i don't know if it's suitable
> > > i approve of its usage in a non-pejorative situation
> > > but still.. is it a tendency?
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: idk I thought we planned it
> > > votageniäl for homosexuality
> > > that's why I say votagenan
> > > El “MonitanBlövik”: i think it's itgeniäl
> > > votageniäl is heterosexuality
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: otgeniäl
> > > sorry yeah I mistook
> > > El ‘Shido’: As I know, dictionaries of Midgley and Cherillod
> have the
> > > word "otgeniälan" for a homosexual.
> > > El “MäntafivKvadik”: votageniäl - heterosexuality
> > > votageniälan - straight
> > > otgeniäl - homosexuality
> > > otgeniälan - gay
> > >
> > > otgenan - trans?
> > >
> > > Täno pos vestig brefüpik äkanob nunön, das diatek nulik Volapükik
> > > gevon tefü ‘homosexual’ vödi: “otgenageniälan” (logolsös penedi
> balid
> > > elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VI, 9!)
> > > El “geniäl” sinifon dranäli genik, äsä vödemadiled sököl
> jonülon: “Ab
> > > if ek cedom, das dunom nepötöfiko kol jigam okik, bi geniäl omik
> vedon
> > > tu nämöfik” (pened balid elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VII, 36). Klu el
> > > “otgenageniäl” kanon paplänön as geniäl kol gen ot, e fom:
> *otgeniälan
> > > < se vödabuks anik binon neverätik. Id ämäniotob vödi:
> > > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban", keli bü yels anik el Hermann
> istukom
> > > ad leigätod ela ‘drag queen’ pö Volapükagrup ela ‘Facebook’. Ad
> jonön
> > > lüodis mögik betika, äkoboädob vödis: *gügenokseved (stabü
> okseved as
> > > ‘self-identification’) e *genavotükamiäl(an).
> > > Täno el “Monitan blövik” äpenom:
> > >
> > > “1. I don't think the meaning of "person with an inclination for
> > > gender change" is neuter enough. I am not an expert on the
> matter, but
> > > many trans people never change their biological gender, and others I
> > > think prefer to not think about it as a change, but as something
> they
> > > always identified with
> > > 2. Let's take in consideration in the future practicality and length
> > > when proposing a new word. The word above would just not be
> practical
> > > if we are to use Volapük in a colloquial context. Translating the
> > > notion as closely as possible does not always mean it's the best
> > solution
> > > many auxlangs work in analogy with the international word, if they
> > > don't adapt the word directly. the prefix "trans-" is translated
> with
> > > "love-" in volapük. so a term like lovegenan would be easy to
> remember
> > > and good enough to describe it.
> > > we're not making alien language or a polysynthetic word here
> where the
> > > whole definition has to fit into a single word
> > > for "self identity" i would use
> > > "okdientif"
> > > it's closer to the international root and shorter
> > > while we're on it, we should change "dientifäd" which means
> "identity
> > > card" to "dientifot" since it's a real, tangible object, not an
> > > abstraction
> > > "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban" i think is first of all misgendering
> > > the singer ("she"), second of all it refers to transVESTITE
> people not
> > > transSEXUAL, that is people who dress as the other gender, which
> might
> > > or might not be trans
> > > and even in this case we can use the friendlier
> "lovegenikloteman" or
> > > "votagenikloteman" ”
> > >
> > > Cedob, das vöds: *lovegen ad ‘transsexuality’ e *lovegenan jinons
> > > binön pötöfiks. Ud okanoy-la datikön vödis votik seimik labü binet:
> > > “love”.
> > > Ba i binosös vipabik ad labön vödi ad ‘gender’, kel no ai baibinon
> > > gen. Liedo no mögos ad gebön vödi: genät, bi ya dabinon subsat
> > > “genätamahijip”. Ba odaloy-li gebön poyümotis votik, as sam: *genöf?
> > > U-li igo el *genöfät?
> > > Ba i vöds votik siämagrupa at oklülädons-la zesüdön. Kisi cedols-li?
> > >
> > > Ko lestüm,
> > > ‘Daniil’ ü ‘Shido’.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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