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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><div>Vemo danob demü gespik staböfik.</div><div><br></div><div>Tefü “di”: cedob, das kanon papladön noe fo nems, abi fo bidanems. Samo el Arie de Jong seimna edatikom notodoti: harmonöm di ‘jazz’ (ab latikumo stamäd: cäsd < epubon, e vöd tefik pro musigöm: cäsdaharmonöm). El Albert Sleumer ämäniotom eli plan di ‘soma’. Zuo pö jenets mödik lartig in genitif e präpod: di < binons siämaröletiks, as sam: pük di ‘Schleyer’ = pük ela Schleyer. Jinos lü ob, das vödil: di < ädefon in Volapük timü püb ela “Gramat Volapüka”, bi buk et äninädon samis sököl:</div><div>tüm : ‘Eiffel’ (nu penoyöv: tüm di ‘Eiffel’),</div><div>stitod : ‘Pasteur’.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Poso präpod: “di” < pilasumon ini vödastok Volapüka, primo ad gebön fo nems, ab latikumo mastans ettimik Volapüka äjinoms sludön, das vödil at kanon pagebön i pö foginavöds votik.</div><div><br></div><div>Baicedob tefü geb ela ‘gender’ as foginavöd, bi liedo defomamavöd ko poyümot jiniko pötöfikün: -ät < ya no binon labülabik.</div><div><br></div><div>Tefü “love” (*lovegen, *lovegenan) dotob, das labon-la te siämi topik. Semikna präpods Volapükik labons sinifis difik (samo el “sus”, kel as lim balid koboyümavöda suvo baiädon ko foyümot bevünetik: ‘super-’). El loveikam kanon malön ceini ön siäm valemik. Zuo el love as lim balid vödas noe kanon malön mufi su sürfat seimik (tävön love mel, spearön love taled), abi feapladami u votikami topik, as sams: loveboidön (tökön, votükön nafi), lovegrifön. Ba klien ad votükön geni ud ad stadön plödü gen biologik okik i kanon-la pamalön dub el “love”. Ma ced obik, pö jenets sököl sinif ela love no binon voiko topik:</div><div>“De cils vel te tel älovelifädons palis oksik…”</div><div>“Do iprimom as studan Godava, äloveikom ye suno lü stud planava…”</div><div>loveliänam = ‘Enjambement’</div><div>Kludo niludob, das gebäd metaforik, efe no topik, ela “love” i binon-la mögik, pato ninü koboyümavöd.</div><div><br></div><div>Ko lestüm,</div><div>Daniil ü Shido.</div></div><br></div><div><br></div>
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понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 09:34:41 GMT+5, Hermann Philipps <hphilipps@onlinehome.de> написал(-а):
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<div><div dir="ltr">O kekadämans stimik!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Dotob tefü geb präpoda: love < ad malön eli ‚trans’ ön siäm nevoik.<br clear="none">Ma sev obik präpod at te pagebon ön siäm topik: love mel/flumed/jot, e r.<br clear="none">Zuo vöds: ‚transgender’ e ‚trans’ no binons balsinifiks (leigoäs el <br clear="none">‚meme’).<br clear="none">Kludo fikulos ad datikön vödi te Volapükiki.<br clear="none">Ibä vöds at niludo pogebons nesuvo u neföro in vödems Volapükik, mobob <br clear="none">das geboyös vödis Linglänapükik (kels pagebons id püks votik): ‚trans’ <br clear="none">e ‚transgender’ < as foginavöds in vödems Volapükik.<br clear="none">Ad fomön ladyekis ba kanoy gebön eli „di”, do voiko vödül at rigo <br clear="none">äjonidon ad fomön ladyekis te de nems, as sam: flad di ‚Leiden’.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Leigo – e demü kods ot – cedob, das bo kanoy gebön vödi: ‚gender’ as <br clear="none">foginavöd in vödems Volapükik, if desiroy ad kurato malön eli ‚social <br clear="none">gender role’.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Lestümiko,<br clear="none">Hermann.<br clear="none">---------------<br clear="none"><div class="ydpe30d65ecyqt3945261746" id="ydpe30d65ecyqtfd40085"><br clear="none">Am 11.10.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Dan Morosof:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ----- Пересылаемое сообщение -----<br clear="none">> *От:* Donald Gasper <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>><br clear="none">> *Кому:* Dan Morosof <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">> *Отправлено:* воскресенье, 11 октября 2020 г., 21:50:24 GMT+5<br clear="none">> *Тема:* Re: trans<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Baicedob. *Lovegenan jinon binön pötöfik.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">> *From:* Dan Morosof <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none">> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 12:30 AM<br clear="none">> *To:* Kadäm Volapüka <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam@evertype.com</a>>; <a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a> <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a>>; Brennus Volapükan <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:brennusvp@legranus.me.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brennusvp@legranus.me.uk</a>>; Arden R. Smith <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:erilaz@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">erilaz@earthlink.net</a>>; <br clear="none">> Daniel Zhang <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:dannyzhang99@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dannyzhang99@yahoo.com</a>>; Igor Wasilewski <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:espigor@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">espigor@gmail.com</a>>; Michael Everson <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:everson@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">everson@evertype.com</a>>; Donald <br clear="none">> Gasper <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>><br clear="none">> *Subject:* trans<br clear="none">> O kekadämans stimik!<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Semikna kompenob pö bespiks ai fenüköls Volapükagrupa ela ‘Discord’ <br clear="none">> labü nem “Volapükan”. Enu säkäd vödas eli ‘LGBT’ tefölas päbespikon. <br clear="none">> Ekö! dil primik spikota:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> El “MonitanBlövik”: i don't even know if we have a word for <br clear="none">> transgender in volapük<br clear="none">> trans- means "over" so it could be lovegenik<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: we tried once<br clear="none">> El “MonitanBlövik”: but sometimes volapük words have to be a lot more <br clear="none">> specific<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: votgenan<br clear="none">> El “MonitanBlövik”: vot is not a preposition so it would be votagenan<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: looks like a discrepancy with votgeniäl but it's <br clear="none">> still clear for me<br clear="none">> yes that<br clear="none">> El “MonitanBlövik”: -iäl means an inclination, and in more cases than <br clear="none">> not it's pejorative<br clear="none">> so i don't know if it's suitable<br clear="none">> i approve of its usage in a non-pejorative situation<br clear="none">> but still.. is it a tendency?<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: idk I thought we planned it<br clear="none">> votageniäl for homosexuality<br clear="none">> that's why I say votagenan<br clear="none">> El “MonitanBlövik”: i think it's itgeniäl<br clear="none">> votageniäl is heterosexuality<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: otgeniäl<br clear="none">> sorry yeah I mistook<br clear="none">> El ‘Shido’: As I know, dictionaries of Midgley and Cherillod have the <br clear="none">> word "otgeniälan" for a homosexual.<br clear="none">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: votageniäl - heterosexuality<br clear="none">> votageniälan - straight<br clear="none">> otgeniäl - homosexuality<br clear="none">> otgeniälan - gay<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> otgenan - trans?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Täno pos vestig brefüpik äkanob nunön, das diatek nulik Volapükik <br clear="none">> gevon tefü ‘homosexual’ vödi: “otgenageniälan” (logolsös penedi balid <br clear="none">> elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VI, 9!)<br clear="none">> El “geniäl” sinifon dranäli genik, äsä vödemadiled sököl jonülon: “Ab <br clear="none">> if ek cedom, das dunom nepötöfiko kol jigam okik, bi geniäl omik vedon <br clear="none">> tu nämöfik” (pened balid elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VII, 36). Klu el <br clear="none">> “otgenageniäl” kanon paplänön as geniäl kol gen ot, e fom: *otgeniälan <br clear="none">> < se vödabuks anik binon neverätik. Id ämäniotob vödi: <br clear="none">> "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban", keli bü yels anik el Hermann istukom <br clear="none">> ad leigätod ela ‘drag queen’ pö Volapükagrup ela ‘Facebook’. Ad jonön <br clear="none">> lüodis mögik betika, äkoboädob vödis: *gügenokseved (stabü okseved as <br clear="none">> ‘self-identification’) e *genavotükamiäl(an).<br clear="none">> Täno el “Monitan blövik” äpenom:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> “1. I don't think the meaning of "person with an inclination for <br clear="none">> gender change" is neuter enough. I am not an expert on the matter, but <br clear="none">> many trans people never change their biological gender, and others I <br clear="none">> think prefer to not think about it as a change, but as something they <br clear="none">> always identified with<br clear="none">> 2. Let's take in consideration in the future practicality and length <br clear="none">> when proposing a new word. The word above would just not be practical <br clear="none">> if we are to use Volapük in a colloquial context. Translating the <br clear="none">> notion as closely as possible does not always mean it's the best solution<br clear="none">> many auxlangs work in analogy with the international word, if they <br clear="none">> don't adapt the word directly. the prefix "trans-" is translated with <br clear="none">> "love-" in volapük. so a term like lovegenan would be easy to remember <br clear="none">> and good enough to describe it.<br clear="none">> we're not making alien language or a polysynthetic word here where the <br clear="none">> whole definition has to fit into a single word<br clear="none">> for "self identity" i would use<br clear="none">> "okdientif"<br clear="none">> it's closer to the international root and shorter<br clear="none">> while we're on it, we should change "dientifäd" which means "identity <br clear="none">> card" to "dientifot" since it's a real, tangible object, not an <br clear="none">> abstraction<br clear="none">> "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban" i think is first of all misgendering <br clear="none">> the singer ("she"), second of all it refers to transVESTITE people not <br clear="none">> transSEXUAL, that is people who dress as the other gender, which might <br clear="none">> or might not be trans<br clear="none">> and even in this case we can use the friendlier "lovegenikloteman" or <br clear="none">> "votagenikloteman" ”<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Cedob, das vöds: *lovegen ad ‘transsexuality’ e *lovegenan jinons <br clear="none">> binön pötöfiks. Ud okanoy-la datikön vödis votik seimik labü binet: <br clear="none">> “love”.<br clear="none">> Ba i binosös vipabik ad labön vödi ad ‘gender’, kel no ai baibinon <br clear="none">> gen. Liedo no mögos ad gebön vödi: genät, bi ya dabinon subsat <br clear="none">> “genätamahijip”. Ba odaloy-li gebön poyümotis votik, as sam: *genöf? <br clear="none">> U-li igo el *genöfät?<br clear="none">> Ba i vöds votik siämagrupa at oklülädons-la zesüdön. Kisi cedols-li?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Ko lestüm,<br clear="none">> ‘Daniil’ ü ‘Shido’.</div><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Kadam mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Kadam mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><div class="ydpe30d65ecyqt3945261746" id="ydpe30d65ecyqtfd26132"><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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