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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>Äsä Monitan blövik se el ‘Discord’ verätiko epenom, suvo els ‘trans’ no vilons votükön geni okas. Jenets loveikama genik jenöfik no binons-la so fikuliks pö suk vöda Volapükik.</span><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>Glidis,</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>Daniil</span></div><div><br></div>
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понедельник, 12 октября 2020 г., 16:27:48 GMT+5, brennusvp <brennusvp@legranus.me.uk> написал(-а):
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<div><div dir="ltr">O flens digik Kadäma<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Labobs rigavödi 'gen'. üf pösod votükom/votükof geni, kanobs sagön 'gena pavotüköl/nulik', igo 'nulagenik' u 'difagenik'. Ba balugiko 'nula/difa-genan'?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Glidis ladöfik,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Brian<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Kadam [mailto:<a href="mailto:kadam-bounces@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam-bounces@evertype.com</a>] On Behalf Of Hermann Philipps<br></div><div dir="ltr">Sent: 12 October 2020 05:35<br></div><div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam@evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Kadam] [SPAM?] Fw: trans<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">O kekadämans stimik!<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dotob tefü geb präpoda: love < ad malön eli ‚trans’ ön siäm nevoik.<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ma sev obik präpod at te pagebon ön siäm topik: love mel/flumed/jot, e r.<br></div><div dir="ltr">Zuo vöds: ‚transgender’ e ‚trans’ no binons balsinifiks (leigoäs el ‚meme’).<br></div><div dir="ltr">Kludo fikulos ad datikön vödi te Volapükiki.<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ibä vöds at niludo pogebons nesuvo u neföro in vödems Volapükik, mobob das geboyös vödis Linglänapükik (kels pagebons id püks votik): ‚trans’ <br></div><div dir="ltr">e ‚transgender’ < as foginavöds in vödems Volapükik.<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ad fomön ladyekis ba kanoy gebön eli „di”, do voiko vödül at rigo äjonidon ad fomön ladyekis te de nems, as sam: flad di ‚Leiden’.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Leigo – e demü kods ot – cedob, das bo kanoy gebön vödi: ‚gender’ as foginavöd in vödems Volapükik, if desiroy ad kurato malön eli ‚social gender role’.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Lestümiko,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Hermann.<br></div><div dir="ltr">---------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Am 11.10.2020 um 18:52 schrieb Dan Morosof:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ----- Пересылаемое сообщение -----<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *От:* Donald Gasper <<a href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Кому:* Dan Morosof <<a href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Отправлено:* воскресенье, 11 октября 2020 г., 21:50:24 GMT+5<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Тема:* Re: trans<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Baicedob. *Lovegenan jinon binön pötöfik.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *From:* Dan Morosof <<a href="mailto:shido2308@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shido2308@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 12:30 AM<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *To:* Kadäm Volapüka <<a href="mailto:kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kadam@evertype.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a href="mailto:hphilipps@onlinehome.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hphilipps@onlinehome.de</a>>; Brennus Volapükan <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a href="mailto:brennusvp@legranus.me.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brennusvp@legranus.me.uk</a>>; Arden R. Smith <<a href="mailto:erilaz@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">erilaz@earthlink.net</a>>; <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Daniel Zhang <<a href="mailto:dannyzhang99@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dannyzhang99@yahoo.com</a>>; Igor Wasilewski <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <<a href="mailto:espigor@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">espigor@gmail.com</a>>; Michael Everson <<a href="mailto:everson@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">everson@evertype.com</a>>; Donald <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Gasper <<a href="mailto:don_gasper@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don_gasper@outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Subject:* trans<br></div><div dir="ltr">> O kekadämans stimik!<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Semikna kompenob pö bespiks ai fenüköls Volapükagrupa ela ‘Discord’ <br></div><div dir="ltr">> labü nem “Volapükan”. Enu säkäd vödas eli ‘LGBT’ tefölas päbespikon. <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ekö! dil primik spikota:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> El “MonitanBlövik”: i don't even know if we have a word for <br></div><div dir="ltr">> transgender in volapük<br></div><div dir="ltr">> trans- means "over" so it could be lovegenik El “MäntafivKvadik”: we <br></div><div dir="ltr">> tried once El “MonitanBlövik”: but sometimes volapük words have to be <br></div><div dir="ltr">> a lot more specific El “MäntafivKvadik”: votgenan El “MonitanBlövik”: <br></div><div dir="ltr">> vot is not a preposition so it would be votagenan El “MäntafivKvadik”: <br></div><div dir="ltr">> looks like a discrepancy with votgeniäl but it's still clear for me <br></div><div dir="ltr">> yes that El “MonitanBlövik”: -iäl means an inclination, and in more <br></div><div dir="ltr">> cases than not it's pejorative so i don't know if it's suitable i <br></div><div dir="ltr">> approve of its usage in a non-pejorative situation but still.. is it a <br></div><div dir="ltr">> tendency?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: idk I thought we planned it votageniäl for <br></div><div dir="ltr">> homosexuality that's why I say votagenan El “MonitanBlövik”: i think <br></div><div dir="ltr">> it's itgeniäl votageniäl is heterosexuality El “MäntafivKvadik”: <br></div><div dir="ltr">> otgeniäl sorry yeah I mistook El ‘Shido’: As I know, dictionaries of <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Midgley and Cherillod have the word "otgeniälan" for a homosexual.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> El “MäntafivKvadik”: votageniäl - heterosexuality votageniälan - <br></div><div dir="ltr">> straight otgeniäl - homosexuality otgeniälan - gay<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> otgenan - trans?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Täno pos vestig brefüpik äkanob nunön, das diatek nulik Volapükik <br></div><div dir="ltr">> gevon tefü ‘homosexual’ vödi: “otgenageniälan” (logolsös penedi balid <br></div><div dir="ltr">> elanes di ‘Corinthos’: VI, 9!) El “geniäl” sinifon dranäli genik, äsä <br></div><div dir="ltr">> vödemadiled sököl jonülon: “Ab if ek cedom, das dunom nepötöfiko kol <br></div><div dir="ltr">> jigam okik, bi geniäl omik vedon tu nämöfik” (pened balid elanes di <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ‘Corinthos’: VII, 36). Klu el “otgenageniäl” kanon paplänön as geniäl <br></div><div dir="ltr">> kol gen ot, e fom: *otgeniälan < se vödabuks anik binon neverätik. Id <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ämäniotob vödi:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban", keli bü yels anik el Hermann istukom <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ad leigätod ela ‘drag queen’ pö Volapükagrup ela ‘Facebook’. Ad jonön <br></div><div dir="ltr">> lüodis mögik betika, äkoboädob vödis: *gügenokseved (stabü okseved as<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ‘self-identification’) e *genavotükamiäl(an).<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Täno el “Monitan blövik” äpenom:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> “1. I don't think the meaning of "person with an inclination for <br></div><div dir="ltr">> gender change" is neuter enough. I am not an expert on the matter, but <br></div><div dir="ltr">> many trans people never change their biological gender, and others I <br></div><div dir="ltr">> think prefer to not think about it as a change, but as something they <br></div><div dir="ltr">> always identified with 2. Let's take in consideration in the future <br></div><div dir="ltr">> practicality and length when proposing a new word. The word above <br></div><div dir="ltr">> would just not be practical if we are to use Volapük in a colloquial <br></div><div dir="ltr">> context. Translating the notion as closely as possible does not always <br></div><div dir="ltr">> mean it's the best solution many auxlangs work in analogy with the <br></div><div dir="ltr">> international word, if they don't adapt the word directly. the prefix <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "trans-" is translated with "love-" in volapük. so a term like <br></div><div dir="ltr">> lovegenan would be easy to remember and good enough to describe it.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> we're not making alien language or a polysynthetic word here where the <br></div><div dir="ltr">> whole definition has to fit into a single word for "self identity" i <br></div><div dir="ltr">> would use "okdientif"<br></div><div dir="ltr">> it's closer to the international root and shorter while we're on it, <br></div><div dir="ltr">> we should change "dientifäd" which means "identity card" to <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "dientifot" since it's a real, tangible object, not an abstraction <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "hi-vota-gena-klotemi-lenlaban" i think is first of all misgendering <br></div><div dir="ltr">> the singer ("she"), second of all it refers to transVESTITE people not <br></div><div dir="ltr">> transSEXUAL, that is people who dress as the other gender, which might <br></div><div dir="ltr">> or might not be trans and even in this case we can use the friendlier <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "lovegenikloteman" or "votagenikloteman" ”<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Cedob, das vöds: *lovegen ad ‘transsexuality’ e *lovegenan jinons <br></div><div dir="ltr">> binön pötöfiks. Ud okanoy-la datikön vödis votik seimik labü binet:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> “love”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ba i binosös vipabik ad labön vödi ad ‘gender’, kel no ai baibinon <br></div><div dir="ltr">> gen. Liedo no mögos ad gebön vödi: genät, bi ya dabinon subsat <br></div><div dir="ltr">> “genätamahijip”. Ba odaloy-li gebön poyümotis votik, as sam: *genöf?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> U-li igo el *genöfät?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ba i vöds votik siämagrupa at oklülädons-la zesüdön. Kisi cedols-li?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ko lestüm,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ‘Daniil’ ü ‘Shido’.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Kadam mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Kadam mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Kadam mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Kadam@evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kadam@evertype.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/kadam_evertype.com</a><br></div></div>
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