<DIV>Hi there,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've looked through the pages you sent and made a note of errors or inconsistencies I spotted. Hope it's useful. I've used a Glyph-style transliteration code rather than actual transliteration just in case you didn't have my font. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Angela<BR><BR><B><I>Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Nigel,<BR><BR>At 13:02 +0100 2007-08-16, Nigel Strudwick wrote:<BR><BR>>I confess to not understanding what this is about.<BR><BR>It is arcane, yes. But you're asking good questions that I think <BR>everyone might be asking.<BR><BR>>Surely one can sort the transliteration characters, but there is <BR>>little point in sorting glyphs, as only a relatively small subset of <BR>>them have phonetic values, and some have several? Aren't
we getting <BR>>beyond the basic encoding of hieroglyphs again?<BR><BR>You are right... the transliteration characters will be sorted as <BR>Latin characters are. (Typically this will mean that the default <BR>order will not be as Gardiner orders it but using the Levantine ABC <BR>order, unless a special Egyptological sorting algorithm is applied.)<BR><BR>But there is indeed a point to sorting the glyphs. Because they are <BR>*characters*, computers will sort them. If we offer no specification, <BR>then the characters will be sorted by computers as though the <BR>alphabet were:<BR><BR>r, a, d, b, x, A, m, w, f, D, i, q, n, S, s/z, h, p, T, H, k, g, t, y, X.<BR><BR>That's not going to be very easy for someone to use. Consider for <BR>instance someone who has named a number of files with Hieroglyphs. If <BR>the files are listed in r-a-d-b... order they will be pretty hard to <BR>find in the list. On the other hand, if they are listed in A-i-y-a... <BR>order it will be a
lot friendlier.<BR><BR>A, i, y, a, w, b, p, f, m, n, r, h, H, X, x, s/z, S, q, k, g, t, T, d, D<BR><BR>1) It's true that only a subset of hieroglyphs have phonetic values, <BR>but the uniliterals, biliterals, and triliterals are very common, and <BR>if they were sorted in A-i-y-a... order then more words would appear <BR>in the right relative position in an ordered list. That will help <BR>people find them.<BR><BR>2) Alphabetical ordering isn't always as precise as we who grew up <BR>with the alphabet song. The ordering I proposed won't meet your <BR>expectations in the same way that the ordering of the Latin <BR>transliteration characters do, but it's not possible to order <BR>Egyptian **characters** according to that... it has to be done by <BR>ordering Egyptian words against another field which contains the <BR>transliteration.<BR><BR>3) A sorting specification *is* part of the basic encoding of any <BR>script. ISO/IEC 10646 specifies the content of the Universal
<BR>Character Set, and ISO/IEC 14651 specifies the sorting of the UCS. <BR>And on the Unicode side, there is the Unicode Collation Algorithm.<BR><BR>So there is no way of getting away from the question of ordering. The <BR>computer will order the characters in r-a-d-b order if we do nothing, <BR>and, warts and all, ordering the uniliterals, biliterals, and <BR>triliterals (and possibly some or more than some ideograms) will in <BR>the long run be more helpful to users of Hieroglyphs on computers <BR>than r-a-d-b will be.<BR><BR>That puts us back to my questions:<BR><BR>1. Have errors been made?<BR><BR>2. For signs which have more than one reading, have I chosen the <BR>correct one? (One must be chosen, on whatever arbitrary or <BR>non-arbitrary basis we have to make it. Options are: (a) which comes <BR>first in alphabetical order, (b) which is more frequent, (c) visual <BR>similarity to another sign which has an unambiguous reading, or (d) <BR>which wins a coin
toss.<BR><BR>3. Should characters which are proper ideograms be ordered according <BR>to their pronunciation?<BR><BR>Best regards,<BR>-- <BR>Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Egyptian mailing list<BR>Egyptian@evertype.com<BR>http://evertype.com/mailman/listinfo/egyptian_evertype.com<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>
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